Fr. Pigxxxx is still....in ministry - Understanding and coping with Psychological Effects of Abuse - General Discussion Topics - SNAP Survivors' Network - Message Board - Yuku

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Fr. Pigxxxx is still....in ministry

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janet		#21	[url]	[-]
Posts: 435 11/29/08 08:41:48	Remember the Mormon offshoot group in Texas, the creeps in Colorado City, Waco, to name a few? The separation of church and state was not set up so churches could avoid following the law. I'll e-mail you about this. This is something we need to demand, and then either Congress can choose to act to protect people, or let it be known publically that they are in the pocket of Rome. A couple of us have been working on this, and we are going to act... soon. Again, separation of church and state is not an excuse for criminal behavior. Nobody is above the law, at least not in the USA.
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rice55		#22	[url]	[-]
Posts: 868 11/29/08 15:25:42	I have two strikes against me. My Congreeman is Catholic (and right to life, so a big, big church supporter) and the Govenor is catholic, even though she just had Proposal Two passed in our state (embryonic stemcell research). My letters will go splat. Marquette Diocese Clergy Watch http://www.marquettedioceseclergywatch.org/ Contact:906-362-2602 U.P.MDCW Survivor Support Group meetings now active. All are welcome. MDCW P.O. Box 45 Marquette, MI 49855
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LiberteBelle		#23	[url]	[-]
Posts: 138 12/01/08 15:59:38	I'm inclined to agree with Janet. The child abuse side of the issue did not come to forefront of public consciousness till enough survivors (and their lawyers) banded together to bring attention to their side of the issue. Then The Boston Globe blew it, irrevocably, wide open and there was no way to effect a retroactive "gag order" on all that. The first step to overcoming any problem is to believe it can be overcome. The second step is to learn to think the end goal back to the 'baby steps' it takes to get to the larger outcome. If the information about foreign-born priest perps is compiled by survivors -- not a priest who's simply going to cite it as statistical data,in yet another one of his papers or books -- and directed to the right people with influence and power, I assure you that even government bureaucracies will take note. But if people decide ahead of time that nothing can be done, then certainly, nothing will happen.
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rice55		#24	[url]	[-]
Posts: 870 12/01/08 18:56:27	Gee, Liberte, you got it all figured out, hop at it. They know what it is that they are doing and I don't know how to stop it. That makes me part of the problem. Move on. Marquette Diocese Clergy Watch http://www.marquettedioceseclergywatch.org/ Contact:906-362-2602 U.P.MDCW Survivor Support Group meetings now active. All are welcome. MDCW P.O. Box 45 Marquette, MI 49855
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LiberteBelle		#25	[url]	[-]
Posts: 139 12/01/08 20:09:16	Dear Rice, That's not what I meant and I honestly think you know that.. All I've tried to encourage here is that notes be compared on the same subject. I don't have it all figured out or I wouldn't be asking for the help of others. Together and collectively we can do a great deal more than as isolated individuals.
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rice55		#26	[url]	[-]
Posts: 871 12/01/08 20:17:55	No, I really don't know that. I am not interested n compiling data. I think the whole system is as rotten as it comes. I think that it will rot from the center on out. I am "doing alot." There is alot you can't see. That is all that I can do. Marquette Diocese Clergy Watch http://www.marquettedioceseclergywatch.org/ Contact:906-362-2602 U.P.MDCW Survivor Support Group meetings now active. All are welcome. MDCW P.O. Box 45 Marquette, MI 49855
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gbullough		#27	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2078 12/02/08 13:41:17	The fact that you two are even able to argue about it and pick at one another shows that the world has changed. Much of that is that the Internet has provided a common forum where people with common, but previously marginalized, can share information and compare notes. It's now possible for someone from San Francisco to find out about a situation in Boston and write to an official or a newspaper there, demanding action. That's a big change.
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LiberteBelle		#28	[url]	[-]
Posts: 140 12/02/08 15:17:37	Hi Gbullough, Some people simply aren't ready or able to take on the idea that their individual or even local experience of clergy abuse fits into a much bigger, collective or even global experience. The potential to use the internet to compile information about survivor experiences, nationally and internationally, has been around for quite awhile now. But so many victims and survivors are still coming to conscious terms with their individual experiences of abuse, I think it's plain overwhelming for them to also think in terms of taking on the overview and actually do something with it. I also know that when Barbara Blaine and others began SNAP, they were initially (and repeatedly) "shocked" to discover just how many other people -- as in, they'd whisper to each other, "Oh my God, that happened to you too?!" -- had experienced clergy abuse as well, until the shock began to wear off. When Barbara & Friends started SNAP, they were still under the (in retrospect, naive) impression that their experiences were extremely rare and unique. So, learning that there was this large number of people who'd also been abused and individually constrained, in one way or another, from speaking out, was quite a lot to absorb, of itself. As the numbers of victims who came forward increased, their former silence hinted at a large scale, conspiratorial cover-up, that proved additionally overwhelming to contemplate. I know that when I first began to recover from my own abuse, I was in absolutely no condition to help myself much less anyone else. I just wanted to be healed of the pain this "bad priest" had inflicted on me and get back to my normal life or failing that, die in peace. Moreover, I could hardly begin to wrap my brain cells around the notion of how BIG this problem is, much less work up the energy to do anything about it. So, in reflecting on my own experience of this, I feel must respectfully defer to Rice's feeling that she is not able to take on more than she has already.
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rice55		#29	[url]	[-]
Posts: 873 12/02/08 18:52:24	Libterte, I am aware of what I can and can't do. I am doing what I can and that is all I can do, and it is enough. Marquette Diocese Clergy Watch http://www.marquettedioceseclergywatch.org/ Contact:906-362-2602 U.P.MDCW Survivor Support Group meetings now active. All are welcome. MDCW P.O. Box 45 Marquette, MI 49855
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PegyJ		#30	[url]	[-]
Posts: 282 12/04/08 12:07:48	Hi Gbullough, This Thanksgiving I was grateful for the internet amongst other things. The support I have gotten from people (you being one of many!) over the internet has been extremely instrumental in my healing. And I know for some, the support they have over the internet is all the support they have. I believe through networking, through the internet, emailing, etc... positive change is right around the corner which will encompasses a multitude of legislative changes that will start the path for some sort of restorative justice for victims of abuse. This conversation is so important. When someone emails me or posts on my guestbook disagreeing with what I say or do, I welcome their points of view. It is a difficult subject and so many people are afraid to talk about it. I am grateful when they are willing to have the conversation with me. It is through those difficult conversations that change will come. Peace all, Peggy
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rice55		#31	[url]	[-]
Posts: 877 12/04/08 20:34:26	After working independently for environmental groups and advocacy groups, here is my two-cents worth; take the members of Obamas' cabinet who have worked the longest on child welfare issues, and push, push, push from the top down. Congress will take too long. They are too owrried about votes. Take key members who are not voted in, find others whom they have worked with, and build coalitions. If anyone thinks that they are the 'lone' horse out there, it is easy to be swayed. Use the existing laws (Deleware is it that has the stringest SOL's?) and talk platform for prevention over "The Catholic Church" platform. If everyone is convinced that prevention and extending the SOL's are the way to go, then pressure from the outside will build for the Church to cave into policy and prevention. You need a tipping point. Use the exploitation of SOL's stautes as a clear, convincing way that the RCC has been exploiting LACK of the law and innocent children, man and women, over and over again, for their own financial gain, and people will listen. If the focus continues to be on "filithy priests" and the screwed up RCC way of "handling it", the message will be easily dismissed as being "one-sided" and "agenda" seeking. From the Catholic side, out these stupid Reveiw Board judges and social workers who are sitting there day after day doing NOTHING to change the SOL's in states where they work. They are being used as a mouth-piece to a RCC and Rome agenda to HIDE, collude and negate crimes. Bishops DO WHAT ROME SAYS and nothing more and nothing less. Rome does what it wants. Lay people who continue to find their positions safely hidden from public opinion need to be outed as being complicit. http://en.wikipedia.org/w...Daschle#Family_background Exploit the public lobbying that the RCC has done on behalf of itself to stop adopting the new legislation of SOL (changes), and run that information to major news carriers. Ask for a public response to RCC lobbying and the tax exempt status. Ask congress for THAT, and that will get a few in congress to act. The "public" doesn't care about raping priests. It does care about where their money is going, and who is paying their taxes and how, and the separation of Chruch and State. That's my two cents worth. I head off to 'the retreat that I was banned from' next week. Goodluck. I am a mess. Gee. And to think this is what I learned in Catholic Social Justice. Marquette Diocese Clergy Watch http://www.marquettedioceseclergywatch.org/ Contact:906-362-2602 U.P.MDCW Survivor Support Group meetings now active. All are welcome. MDCW P.O. Box 45 Marquette, MI 49855 Last Edited By: rice55 12/04/08 20:59:11. Edited 1 time.
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rice55		#32	[url]	[-]
Posts: 878 12/04/08 20:42:29	You should also be looking at the groups of Social Workers and the national and international groups that they belong to, to join in force with Governent in turning this disgusting situation SOL's around. Marquette Diocese Clergy Watch http://www.marquettedioceseclergywatch.org/ Contact:906-362-2602 U.P.MDCW Survivor Support Group meetings now active. All are welcome. MDCW P.O. Box 45 Marquette, MI 49855
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PegyJ		#33	[url]	[-]
Posts: 284 12/04/08 21:12:09	We do need to be looking at groups/educating groups - like NOW, child advocate groups, like CASA, local sexual assault centers and state coalitions/alliance, each state has one. I believe changes can be made at the state levels but we need groups that are in the know and have experience lobbying
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rice55		#34	[url]	[-]
Posts: 879 12/04/08 22:20:43	Yes. but you need groups that do NOT reply on funding from the RCC or you will have talk out of both sides of their mouths. You need groups that fund themselves. Professional groups which are paid by dues or by association stand on their own. Public 501c3 are NOT where to look for political piecework. You do not have to have experince in lobbying. You need to know whom you are asking and as much as you can about that person and/or group. Just sending letters to newspapers and writing at length studies or footnoted agenda pieces won't make a dent where it counts. You need to personally form relationships with leaders who can lead (not vote seekers). Taking the time to research who is contantly in articles in your state about chidlren, child welfare and domestic violence is a great place to start. And you know what, you won't find very many Catholics in those poistions. You find most Catholics on Education boards and commitees, but most legislative work is done by....ta-dah, non-Catholics. If you present this as a mainly Catholic problem, you will leave behind people who can actually assist the platform issue, and get a bill going. Study who introduces legislation. If you dont know where your leaders stand on SOL reform, that is a good place to begin diolouge. Always, always, always call your local leaders and ask for clarification statements. When they don;t have any, begin writing letters explaning what you are seeking. State your goal FIRST and your history second, Thank his or her for their attention and time. Ask who they work with or who they can direct you to. Always send thank yous and ask for updates every so often. Meet with them when they come to town. Keeping this as just an RCC issue is going to slow the SOL issue down. I love what Frank Douglas is doing on his end. Financially holding the Bishop's down is a great accountability idea.
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LiberteBelle		#35	[url]	[-]
Posts: 146 12/08/08 19:39:46	Before anyone gets into debating which government officials and agencies or special interest groups to approach, well-organized information is needed along with a well-organized approach. I already have a VOTF friend in northern California compiling data about clergy abuse cases there involving child, teen and adult victims as well as native- and foreign-born priests. I am devising an Excel spread sheet template for the information which includes categories like: Name of Offender (individual, even though in some cases there are multiple offenders involved with a single person or incident), Nature of Offense, When, Where, Source(s) of Information, etc. The latter is very important as there must be credible corroboration for any story cited, whether it's a court filing number or documented in a periodical. (e.g., newspaper stories are credible documentation, unless the story is being legally contested or has been retracted) In short: it's nice to have definite ideas about who we should target, but I think we need to do the groundwork of compiling information, first. Government agencies and officials and special interest groups are fact and statistics oriented, first, emotionally moved secondarily after being presented with an abundance of 'dry' facts. Though, before that declaration discourages and infuriates anyone, consider, momentarily how much more brutal the impact of terse, simple, statements can be at times. For example: were I to break out the facts involving just one priest I know of it would go something like this: Name Origin Incident Documentation Fr. Randy Pants United Kingdom fathered twins - born in Italy, 1983 birth certificate, petition to contest decedent priest's will as surviving children Fr. Randy Pants Same fathered son - Montana, USA 1988 birth certificate, petition to contest decedent priest's will as surviving child Fr. Randy Pants Same fathered daughter, via statutory rape - Oregon, USA 1997 birth certificate, court-order for child support, case filing number rape, petition to contest decedent priest's will as surviving child. Actual details altered here to protect innocent, but you get the idea ...
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PegyJ		#36	[url]	[-]
Posts: 286 12/09/08 00:07:02	I have co-presented workshops with other advocates at the National NOW Conference and for the Washington State Coaliation of Sexual Assault Centers - well organized info - I would hope that would be a given. There are others out there collecting this data and making it public. Data is also being gathered by www.adultsabusedbyclergy.org. The website owner of www.adultsabusedbyclergy.org has also presented numerous workshops not only regarding clergy abuse but professional abuse in general as well regarding, therapists, doctors, etc.... adultsabusedbyclergy.org has fantastic brochures and handouts full of documented info. Contact adultsabusedbyclergy.org for more info. We need to start collaborating our info. Last Edited By: PegyJ 12/11/08 11:10:28. Edited 2 times.
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rice55		#37	[url]	[-]
Posts: 953 09/13/09 19:50:40	(just reviewing above) anger has its days... And to think that I would even write this...but considering the rage, it won't delete it. It stands. Ungly and all...bacause this is what it is; raw and unfiltered, and angry. And each day you pull another sliver of glass that has worked its way to the surface. It is an infection that you can't treat. It becomes the blindspot of the soul.
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